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Real Doctors (Life Makers)  |  Clinical  |  Postgraduate studies  |  THE POST GRADUATE STUDY « previous next »
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anwarica
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THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:11:16 PM »

Dr. 3abeer said


USMLE

 a system of 3 steps, in each step u set 4 an exam, the 1st step is in basic sceince( academic) so u can do it before u go 2 the hospital, (better), the 2nd step is clinical ( written exam in the clinical subjects), after that u set 4 the 3rd step,
this allows u 2 go 4 ur postgraduate study in us,
about me, I'm going 2 set 4 the british system, 2 go 4 it, u have 2 ways, if u want 2 do the postgraduate study in UK, u have 2 give 2 exams, THE ( IELTS) WHICH IS an english language exam, u have 2 get score of 7 or above, if u get this u can set after that 4 PLAB PART1 & PART 2( معادلة الشهادة البريطانية)
THEN U APPLY 4 SHO POST ( senior house officer ) & u go 2 uk,
the other way, if u want 2 get ur speciality (تخصص ) from UK,but without going their, here it's easier u set for the exams u want in ur country ( MRCP ) , IT'S 2 PARTS, then u become a member of the royal college,
WHAT'S MY OPINION IN THIS?
ABSOLUTELY I AGREE, & I WAS PLANNING 2 ENCOURAGE ALL OF U 2 CARRY WITH THIS, COZ WE NEED EXTRA ORDINARY DOCTORS, NOT 3RD DEGREE DOCTORS,
FINALLY, I WOULD LIKE 2 INFORM U THAT, DR NUHA( CLEO) IS DOING HER POST GRADUATE IN US, SO SHE CAN GIVE U MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE AMERICAN SYSTEM
& DON'T FORGET THAT THERE'S ALSO THE CANADIAN SYSTEM , THESE R THE MOST POWERFUL SYSTEMS 4 POSTGRADUATE WORLWIDE
ALL THE BEST, & I WILL BE HAPPY 2 RECEIVE ANY QURIES ABOUT THIS
« Last Edit: /June/ 30, 2006, 03:44:24 AM by anwarica » Logged


 
anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #1 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:14:39 PM »

Dr. 3abeer said:


The British system

1st: if U want 2go 2 do ur post graduate in UK:
HERE , U HAVE 2 SET 4 3 EXAMS,
1- IELTS: which is an international English language exam, consisting of 4 parts, listening, speaking, writing & reading.
- U have 2 get at least 7 out of 9 in this exam, ok dear.
- U can register 4 the exam in the british council in UR country.
- There r many books that help in preparing 4 the exam, my book is
insight into IELTS, from Cambridge university, it comes with a cassette
- There r preparation courses, held in the British council, u can register 4 one of these also
2- After that U have 2 set for the PLAB part 1,
معادلة الشهادة البريطانية في الطب)
This is a written exam, in all medical science, academic & clinical, it?s MCQ exam.

- Where can U register 4 this exam in Egypt? Maybe in the ministry of health or the british council also, U can know from the web sites, ok
- There r books also 4 this exam, U can buy from libraries. ( ask about PLAB books, & check the recommended books on line)
3- AFTER PASSING THIS PART 1 ? INSHALLA-
U set 4 PLAB part 2, which is clinical exam,
4- after passing this part also, inshalla, U register with the general medical council, ( u can register before these exams also) 7 U apply 4 ? SHO post = senior house officer post .
this means that after UR registeration with gmc, u got 2 know about vacancies in hospital in UK, then u apply their & wait till U get a position.the application 4 this is twice per year, on march & August .
- during this time , U should be working or attending any hospital in UR country, specifically in the department U want 2 work in in UK, let?s say that U want 2 do pediatrics in UK, so u have 2 work in pediatrics in UR country till U finish all this, ( this is considered +ve event in UR C.V.)
ok,

now the 2nd way:
- if U want 2 get UR speciality from UK without going their,
1- here, after UR graduation, U apply 4 THE ROYAL COOLEGE EXAM , PART 1 in the speciality U want, let?s say:
for pediatrics U apply 4 MRCPCH part 1, ok,
for medicine U apply 4 MRCP part 1, for gyne & obs. U apply 4 MRCOG part 1 & so Huh?
- U give the exam in UR country ,
2- U have 2 work for 2 & half yrs in any hospital in UR country that is RECOGNIZED BY THE ROYAL COLLEGE, ( U CAN GET THE INFORMATION FROM THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH OR THE ROYAL COLLEGE, 2 KNOW WHICH HOSPITALS R RECOGNIZED IN UR COUNTRY)
3- After that U can apply 4 THE 2ND PART EXAM
4- WHEN U pass these 2 exams, INSHALLA, UR considered as a member of royal college.

4 All the steps above, U have specific books available in the libraries, MRCP PART 1 ,OR 2, PLAB,?.


About the AMERICAN SYSTEM, U might ask Dr Nuha, she is a resident in Boston

- There is also the Canadian system, but it?s expensive & U need sponsorship 2 get into the program their.

Finally: I want 2 say that there residency programs in the Arab world, one of them is the Jordanian board,( which is recognized in the west) & the Arab board which is not recognized in the west. I don?t know if there R other systems in other Arabic countries.

The web sites U can use R :
www.onexamination.com
www.gmc-uk.org
www.mrcp.com

u can also search the google & U will find more sites

what I want 2 say is, all of us should think about the post graduate study, coz this is the only way 2 be a great DR. & only by this U can work wherever u want in the world, & this is a normal event in the west, while, in our countries, it?s very rare, or even unknown, most R thinking المهم اشتغل 
but this is the beginning 2 change the health services in our countries, & I hope in the fiture , we will have our own , programs that R recognized worldwide.
Plz try 2 educate all who doesn?t know about this, coz this is amana.
Ready 4 any question U want.
All the best
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anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #2 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:17:19 PM »

Dr. Cleo_md said:


let me explain it to you broadly and make a few comments and general advice for all those going ahead with it .

The USMLE is an exam that anyone practising medicine in the US has to sit for . It's basically to get your license to practise medicine .

It is divided as follows

STEP ONE -
Anatomy , Physiology , Biochemistry , Genetics , Behavioral medicine , Statistics , Microbiology( including parasitology) , Ethics , Pathology , Pharmacology , Histology , Immunology, Molecular biology , Epidemiology .

It is a test in basic sciences but what everyone needs to realize is the exam is from a CLINICAL prespective so i highly advice you not to sit for the exam if you have not been on the wards and done some clinical studying .
Most of the questions are basically cases so you need some clinical back ground.I'm not sayiny you need to cover internal medicine or psychiatry but you do need a back ground .

The exam is an 8 hour exam - i think it was 350 questions - 50 questions each block

STEP TWO - CK ( Clinical Knowledge)
Internal medicine , Surgery ( including subspecialities as ENT , Ophthalmology , Trauma) , Psychiatry , Pediatrics , OB/Gyn, Epidemiology , Ethics , Statistics .

We can easily say that 90% of the questions are cases requiring things as diagnostic tests , DD or things relating to reaching a diagnosis and broad treatment measures or treatment measures that are life saving .


- To be continued...pager beeping!!!!!!
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anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #3 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:18:30 PM »

Dr. Cleo_md said:
 

Step 2

as i said..it' clinical...the exam is 9 hours - around 400 quesitons if i'm not mistaken


STEP 2 CS- Clinical skills ( used to be called CSA)

THis is the clinical skills evaluation test...that is encounters with patients - it ranges from 11-12 patients . Mostly internal medicine but you can get anything .
You have 15 mins to take a history , do a physical exam and talk to the patients about your findings and counsel them about bad habits/what tests they may need further ...etc

I think now there is an english language part of it as an evaluation instead of the TOEFL


STEP 3
This is the part which is clinical with emphasis on treatment - It is a 2 day exam
but you do not need it to join residency in the US . I did not sit for this exam before residency although some people prefer to .


The time frame to prepare....if you are working step 1 may take up to 6 -10 months and step 2 4-6 months but if you are doing it as a full time thing you can take 5 months step 1and 4 step 2 ..it really depends on you... you can just schedule your exam and reschedule if you're not ready...it runs the whole year long so it's not really a fixed time whcih you have to make ( except if you are planning on a specific date to join residency - people start applying in August of every year)


The cost- This is highly variable but some say around 50,000 Egyptian pounds...i m not sure how true this is...but i can give you some basic figures

step 1 $ 810
step2- CK $ 810
step 2 CS $ 1200

then you have books , q books , kaplan materials , the cost of the trip for the step 2 CS in the US

This is to get ECFMG certified ...after that comes residency and applying for the match
that's a long story that i can explain later to those interested 

I am totally with people travelling to the West for a better education to go back home and fix the current bad circumstances....I am MORE THAN WILLING to help anyone planning to come to the US / sitting for the USMLE's ...
I have Qs , books , i can generally advice you , help you with the match , help guide you on the best way to pass the clinical exam...you name it !
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anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #4 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:19:49 PM »

Dr. Cleo_md said:
 
 
About the residency . The way things go here is as follows .When you are certified to practise medicine you start getting ready by August to apply to the match .
The match is a computer process that happens every year to match doctors with hospitals .

You go online and sign up on something called ERAS or the electronic residency service . There you have all your information and they basically guide you where to send all your certificates and papers ( like transcripts from your medical school , recommendation letters ) They basically act like an office that has all your stuff . They do this for one reason - you dont have to actually send all your papers a million times to different hospitals . They do that for you . You pick the hospital and on the computer check what you need to send to that hospital and they do it electronically .

Anyway ...enough about ERAS . You choose your speciality , you pick the hospitals you want to apply to and then ERAS sends your application and paper work to them .
You wait and they contact you . Either tell you we are inviting you for an interview or they send a rejection letter .

Once you are invited for an interview - they start sending you interview dates and you pick the date , show up , talk to people and they either like you or not .

At the end of the process you may have a few interviews and the NRMP - which is like the match office asks you to make a list of the hospitals you interviewed at in the order of your preference. It means the one you like the most goes in number one and the one you like the least comes in last .

Same thing happens in hospitals , they make a list of the candidates who applied putting you on a list of many people .

Then the computer on a certain day ( usually around mid march ) does an algorithem to match candidates to hospitals according to mutual preference .
The trick here is you may like some place so much and rank them high then they dont rank you high and you end up not matching with any place .
You can get a sense of things when people behave like they are interested and things like that .

There are some uncommon incidents when you meet with a hospital and they like you so much that they ask you to sign a "prematch" contract . That's what happened with me ( i dont know what they liked really) . I got an interview early in the process and i scheduled it early because i was travelling outside the US and they ended up calling me and asking me to sign a contract with them before the match process and do not go through the match .
That does not happen all the time but if it does happen and you like the place then Allah blessed you and spared you the match dilemma.

Once you know where you matched or prematched you just contact them or they contact you and it's just things you need to be certified in like ACLS /BLS ..courses you have to pass before joining , not a big deal .

If you are unlucky and dont match , there is usually a list of hospitals which after the match process still have some empty spots . So you can just apply to them and interview and they will contact you to tell you if you are in or rejected .

That's it ....it's a long process , you need to have some good letters of recommendations from clinicians in the field you are applying to and they always prefer if you have trained in the US for sometime , but it is not a must . IT is just a preference .
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anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #5 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:20:47 PM »

Dr. Cleo_md said:
 

Step 2 clinical knowledge is essentially all the clinical fields of medicine in addition to ethics , epidemiology and statistics

Here is a list of the books that you can use

- Internal medicine
i used Current medical diagnosis and treatement as a reference , it is a big book and cant be actually done before the exam unless you're still in medical school

blue prints in internal medicine
kaplan study notes

internal medicine is 80% of the exam so this should be your main concentration

- Psychiatry
BRS in psychiatry ( board review series)
or kaplan notes - they are identical

-Gyn/Ob
BRS or Kaplan

-Surgery and subspecialities
I found that that kaplan notes were more than enough for the exam , surgery in the USMLE is mainly trauma and scenarios that want you to act right in life and death situations

- Peds
Blueprints or Kaplan
i dont think you will have much of a problem there 

-Statistics/epidemiology/ethics
i used kaplan....it's short and to the point...all you need for the exam

I think it's a must that you find the new Kaplan question bank because it tells you how the exam questions look like ( they usually have them at Kaplan and sometimes there are available on Ebay) . If you cant find it let me know and i can mail you a copy of the one i have on CD . It's not the most recent but will be more helpful than other sources.



There are many books that have short questions , reminder schemes and things like that that i used
- Step2 secrets or crush the boards step 2
-USMLE Step2 First Aid ( very good book)
-Appl and Lange Questions

If i remember any more books or resources i will post them for you
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anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #6 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 12:24:26 PM »

That was the most of topic in English as much as I could copy from the previous forum!
I'm sure that questions are welcomed here too Wink
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Mohamed
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #7 on: /October/ 05, 2005, 06:53:50 PM »

Thanks dr. anwarica, actually this thread gives me some hope in the future that when I think about it I looks like this guy >>>>>>  Head

Tongue
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dr_b.e.s.m
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A good book about medicine abroad
« Reply #8 on: /October/ 08, 2005, 09:33:50 AM »

http://rapidshare.de/files/6025280/The_Doctor_s_Guide_to_Overseas_Training.rar.html


conatians useful well organized info about USA , UK , Canada, Australia , etc...

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anwarica
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #9 on: /November/ 29, 2005, 12:38:47 AM »

When I was reading this topic today [again and again  Embarrassed]
I stopped when I saw "IELTS" Because I could fetch a book about it weeks ago without understanding what was that  rage

Here's the thread about Cambridge IELTS 4 For Medical Post-Graduate study (British System)  Smiley
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3abeer
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #10 on: /February/ 28, 2006, 09:09:03 AM »

ALL WHAT U NEED TO KNOW ABOUT USMLE

www.usmle.org

www.ecfmg.org
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someonez
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #11 on: /March/ 26, 2006, 12:45:47 PM »

Assalamo Aleikom ..

Thanks everybody for this amazing work ..
i Have a couple of questions though ..

about the British systems .. What kind of Advantages does each of the PLAB and the MRCS give you ?
my dad is pursuing me to do the MRCS .. i want to be an orthopaedic surgeon .. i have like Zero chance to join the faculty staff and can't seem to find any other options here in Egypt ..

i'm still in my fourth year .. so lots can happen in such long time ('bout 3 years) .. but still .. i need to know on what ground i'm standing ..

Should i consider PLAB  if i couldn't find any decent job here ?
Plus .. i guess the MRCS is useful if i wanna go on with my studies abroad .. It's sort of a degree , right ? 
I don't think my Ain Shams Degree would do me any good abroad , wouldn't  it ?

God ! .. i'm going bananas here !! .. Hope you could help me .
Thanks any way ..
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #12 on: /March/ 26, 2006, 01:31:15 PM »

Dear someonez,

Although I am still a third year student, but I think I can help.
As Far as I know, PLAB is an equivalent to the Egyptian bachelor, while MRCS is a medical degree.
You should also know that PLAB can be taken directly after your internship (imtiyaz) while in case of MRCS you need more years of practice to be eligible to sit for the exam.

You said:
Should i consider PLAB  if i couldn't find any decent job here ?

I think you should. The problem will arise only if you got a position in the college and joined the staff. Then, you will have to choose whether to continue here to be a professor or to go abroad.

You said:
I don't think my Ain Shams Degree would do me any good abroad , wouldn't  it ?

I think so. But may be you can find some Arab countries that recognize it, but you should prove that you are competent by taking foreign qualifications.

For more, please visit a post about PLAB at: http://www.medicaleducationonline.org/smf/index.php?topic=3009.0
« Last Edit: /March/ 27, 2006, 04:48:26 AM by juniordoctor » Logged
 
someonez
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #13 on: /March/ 28, 2006, 03:28:13 AM »

Thanks so much junior doctor
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musheera
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Re: THE POST GRADUATE STUDY
« Reply #14 on: /March/ 28, 2006, 03:40:29 AM »

Dear someonez

Why don't you conider american board???

you have to study 1st step ....
2nd step
CSA (clinical skills )
go through ?aperiod of internship

then study for the board exams
& voila u have american board...


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